raymond frantz

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Posts by raymond frantz

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  97

  Did Jesus really exist?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i had been wondering over the past few years whether there really was a historical jesus at all, until a few months ago when i read bart ehrman's latest book "did jesus exist?

  " initially i was persuaded by his argument that the nt contains multiple sources that testify to jesus' existence.

  but more recently i have been reading the christ myth position of richard carrier and his responses to ehrman.

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  raymond frantz

  OK ,you don't believe in Satan ,this is another argument
• 
  97

  Did Jesus really exist?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i had been wondering over the past few years whether there really was a historical jesus at all, until a few months ago when i read bart ehrman's latest book "did jesus exist?

  " initially i was persuaded by his argument that the nt contains multiple sources that testify to jesus' existence.

  but more recently i have been reading the christ myth position of richard carrier and his responses to ehrman.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  raymond frantz

  @cofty,Indirect archeological findings that confirm the Gospels authenticity
• 
  97

  Did Jesus really exist?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i had been wondering over the past few years whether there really was a historical jesus at all, until a few months ago when i read bart ehrman's latest book "did jesus exist?

  " initially i was persuaded by his argument that the nt contains multiple sources that testify to jesus' existence.

  but more recently i have been reading the christ myth position of richard carrier and his responses to ehrman.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  raymond frantz

  Not including Bible sources, the following people wrote about Jesus:
  * The Jewish historian Josephus (A.D. 37-100)
  
  *Pliny the Younger, imperial Roman Legate of Bythynia - in a letter to Emperor Trajan in A.D. 112
  
  *Tacitus - the important Roman historian
  
  *Suetonius - a Roman historian who compiled a biography of the first twelve Roman emperors in his "Life of Claudius"
  
  *Thallus and Julius Africanus in A.D. 52
  
  *Mara bar Serpion
  
  In addition, there are thousands upon thousands of archaeological findings that point to Jesus existence.
• 
  97

  Did Jesus really exist?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i had been wondering over the past few years whether there really was a historical jesus at all, until a few months ago when i read bart ehrman's latest book "did jesus exist?

  " initially i was persuaded by his argument that the nt contains multiple sources that testify to jesus' existence.

  but more recently i have been reading the christ myth position of richard carrier and his responses to ehrman.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  raymond frantz

  @adamah ,imposters have been around since the begining of time (Satan the first ?) .I wasn't referring to that .I was referring to the fabrication of a character from historians .If Josephus is a liar and Tacitus is a liar then pretty much of what they wrote is lies and in extent you can't believe anything of what ancient historians wrote about anything !
• 
  97

  Did Jesus really exist?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i had been wondering over the past few years whether there really was a historical jesus at all, until a few months ago when i read bart ehrman's latest book "did jesus exist?

  " initially i was persuaded by his argument that the nt contains multiple sources that testify to jesus' existence.

  but more recently i have been reading the christ myth position of richard carrier and his responses to ehrman.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  raymond frantz

  The New Encyclopedia Britannica states that :"In ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadiquate grounds for the first time at the end of the 18th century"

  External non Christian historians :Tacitus and Josephus
• 
  97

  Did Jesus really exist?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i had been wondering over the past few years whether there really was a historical jesus at all, until a few months ago when i read bart ehrman's latest book "did jesus exist?

  " initially i was persuaded by his argument that the nt contains multiple sources that testify to jesus' existence.

  but more recently i have been reading the christ myth position of richard carrier and his responses to ehrman.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  raymond frantz

  @Lost Generation ,you seem to contradict 99% of modern historians that accept the fact the Jesus was a historical figure
• 
  97

  Did Jesus really exist?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i had been wondering over the past few years whether there really was a historical jesus at all, until a few months ago when i read bart ehrman's latest book "did jesus exist?

  " initially i was persuaded by his argument that the nt contains multiple sources that testify to jesus' existence.

  but more recently i have been reading the christ myth position of richard carrier and his responses to ehrman.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  raymond frantz

  Excuse my ignorance but isn't the character fabrication a recent phenomenon ? In antiquity you either existed or you didn't .People didn't go as far as fabricating character in the hope that it would serve someone's arguments 2000 later .Also , Historical criticism is a recent phenomenon, it began in the 17th century and gained popular recognition in the 19th and 20th centuries (wikipedia quote).Also the old Reasoning in the Scriptures argument think is still valid :Why would the first 3 century Christians put them selves through persecution and violent death for a fabricated character?
• 
  97

  Did Jesus really exist?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i had been wondering over the past few years whether there really was a historical jesus at all, until a few months ago when i read bart ehrman's latest book "did jesus exist?

  " initially i was persuaded by his argument that the nt contains multiple sources that testify to jesus' existence.

  but more recently i have been reading the christ myth position of richard carrier and his responses to ehrman.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  raymond frantz

  If Jesus didn't exist then many other ancient characters didn't EXIST either Plato,Alexander the Great etc. could be a figment of the imagination of their followers after all there a lot less external testimonies for them than there are for Jesus.
• 
  62

  What kind of scandal would cause most JW to leave the "truth"?

  by Iamallcool in

  1. jw
  2. friends
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• 

  raymond frantz

  the internet and the free trafic of information in a scale never been seen before is a factor that helps many Witnesses to "awake" and see the lies and manipulation this will only increase in intensity as the years go by .The new GB lack any of the charisma of their predessesors ,it is not hard to see even for stupid Witnesses .The Condi court case and the storm of new pedophile scandals that will cost hundrends of millions in payouts and the slowing down of donations and the reaching out for priviledges of new ones .Put all this together and you have already a storm in the making .Yes it will take decades but it will happen
• 
  62

  What kind of scandal would cause most JW to leave the "truth"?

  by Iamallcool in

  1. jw
  2. friends
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  3. 
• 

  raymond frantz

  gingerbread ,brilliantly worded "internal atrophy" is here to stay